Gareth McGlynn (00:01):
Hey, Jeremy, welcome to The Preconstruction Podcast.
Jeremy Roh (00:04):
Hey, how’s it going? Thanks for having me.
Gareth McGlynn (00:07):
You’re welcome. For our listeners and our audience here today. We have Jeremy Rowe, principal at Racoona architecture and design most commonly known as rad and Charlotte. So Jeremy, tell me a little bit about, rather than about your architecture firm in Charlotte.
Jeremy Roh (00:26):
Yeah, so a rad is actually so we, we were started in 2015 here in Charlotte, but it used to be a firm called DMR architects. So I think a lot of people in Charlotte are familiar with that firm. They were around for about 30 plus years doing a lot of mainly focused in retail. So one of the major projects here in town that everyone would know about is the epicenter. The owner of this firm is actually the architect of record for the epicenter in uptown Charlotte. So pretty large retail mixed use complicated building that’s downtown that everyone has at least probably gone to once or twice. But in 2015 the principals there at DMR started to retire and Matt Ragona, the owner here went ahead and bought the firm and rebranded it to we’re going to architecture and design.
Jeremy Roh (01:22):
And our acronym is rad. So we we go by rad architecture a lot. And so one of the lessons learned from both of our backgrounds you know, I come from a background where we mainly did a university work and then he came from a background where it was mainly in retail. We decided to really diversify our portfolio and the projects that we’re going to go after. So rad does a little bit of everything. We’re mainly doing, of course we keep on doing retail and mixed use. We do office hospitality, restaurants, wellness you know, automotive and even residential. So there isn’t really a project that we’re, we’re going to turn down. We’re, we’re kind of doing a little bit of everything and that’s really helped us you know, keep moving through, especially during these times. We also implemented another part of our firm where we do specialized architectural services, which is mainly getting into the BIM coordination and working with general contractors and subcontractors, helping them with their virtual design and construction.
Gareth McGlynn (02:31):
Brilliant. Yeah. Cause that mean that’s, it, that’s a huge market right now. That’s that’s on the lips of everyone. Talk to me about BIM and VDC. How important has it been, how important will it be come within architecture and design because we’re talking about models, we’re talking about architects pumping out models with so much detail. Is that what you’re seeing right now is that what clients are looking for right now, is that what the GCs are looking for? Right. And what do you expect in the next five to 10 years?
Jeremy Roh (03:04):
Yeah, so for us on the architectural side, I mean, we’re, we’re all about the building information modeling. Everything we do here at rad is, you know, everything is in 3d. It doesn’t matter what project we’re working on. It just helps not only us visualize the project and understand what we’re doing. It always helps the client. You know, there’s only so much information you can imagine from a two D drawing. So being able to show the model to clients and have interactive meetings with them to you know, actually be inside the model and, you know, if they don’t like something, while we’re in the meeting, we can move doors or move walls and windows and let them visualize it in, in an interactive way. And you know, so from a client standpoint, they’re, they’re more and more expecting to see this visualization service on the GC side, you know, we’re oftentimes giving our model over, you know, at the end of our construction documents, when a GC is selected, we’re giving them our three D models so that they can also facilitate their shop drawings and everything else that they need to do, but it helps them visualize they can put it into their software to you know, get into their virtual design and construction, you know, whatever aspect that is for them.
Jeremy Roh (04:20):
During construction, there’s always some kind of detail somewhere that nobody can visualize or see. And it’s real quick to just go into the model and, and talk about it and discuss. So that’s where we’re kind of at, at the moment, you know, with with that technology for us and the office building information modeling is all about being efficient. You know, I come from, you know, my background goes all the way back to hand drafting doing CAD and then now three D modeling. And, you know, I can’t tell you how many hours I wasted trimming and extending lines. I should be really thinking about the design of the project and you know, talking about design options. So that’s really been the best thing that I’ve seen in, in, on our side. As far as like where it’s going in the future you know, I would say, I don’t know, in the next five to 10 years, I’m really excited about how all of this technology is eventually connecting to you know, other technology that’s like robots, you know, like drones and, you know, there’s a lot of experiments out there where they’re getting robots out there to try to transfer the information from a digital model and then have it automatically build a wall or something.
Jeremy Roh (05:36):
You know, I know that a long time, you know, out there that that’s really gonna really come into mainstream, but things like augmented reality where, you know, we can just you know, you can hold up your device and kind of visualize what is actually gonna look like on the land, you know, your actual model of being built in real life. There’s a lot of possibilities that are out there that I see.
Gareth McGlynn (05:59):
Good. Yeah. If you have you get a chance, we did a upgrade podcast with a lady called Noni Pittenger and she did digital fabrication using robotics and fascinating. No, you have to say when you’re listening to it, it was going a lot of it was going over my head, but she was fantastic. They did a a project hiccups. It was a theater and lions theater in Atlanta, and they totally fabricated the whole it was almost like it was almost the whole interiors, but it was all done with wood and fascinating story in it. She, she gives a real insight into it now, and it’s, it’s happening. I know it’s kind of a little bit further down the line to becoming a, a norm, but it definitely is happening. And it’s great to see because even if I bring it back to that, that whole, the bam, one of the key things with the three legged stool as we call it is the client, the architect and the construction manager, or the general contractor, the collaboration and the communication has been improved that. And how do you see that improvement? Because to me and speaking with the GCs quite a lot under the owners, that is the key for everyone getting collaboration, getting not life, but real, real time information across the each, each person as quickly as possible.
Jeremy Roh (07:23):
Yeah. So you know, when, when it’s all together and we’re all in that one model, you know, the general contractors usually have their Navis works model or whatever platform they’re using that the architect is uploading their model to the all the subcontractors. You know, a lot of a lot of the projects that we’ve been involved with with our specialized services is that even the subcontractors that are going into the project also have to provide their shop drawings as a three D model. And they’re working out all the clashes and all the issues ahead of time in the virtual world before it’s actually getting installed. So the owner can peek in and see exactly what’s going on, what the problems are, what the issues might be. And everybody’s working together on one platform to kind of figure it out before it’s actually being built and everyone’s in the field, you know, scratching their heads, trying to figure out what happened.
Jeremy Roh (08:19):
The one thing I will say is that all this technology is great with that three legged stool. But in the end, the person that’s actually installing everything that’s in the field. They also have to have the technology because I’ve, I’ve been in involved in some projects where we do all of this virtual design and construction. And in the end, the guy that’s laying out the mechanical duct work, not to pick on him, but he didn’t really follow what was in the virtual design plan and just started installing, you know, kind of like how he was used to doing it. And then all of that, that we went into, you know, trying to do all the coordination. It just doesn’t work anymore because now, you know, he put it in the wrong place. So of course he had to go back and fix it. But you know, those are the kinds of things that I see that eventually in the field, you know, everyone, everyone who’s in the field has to also be part of that technology and, and have means to figure out how to lay it out.
Gareth McGlynn (09:17):
And it’s amazing, Jeremy, because we always talk about the general contractor getting involved at the earliest earliest stages of design with the architect, but no, it’s literally on their stage where the subcontractor is now getting involved at that stage as well. So it really is a team effort.
Jeremy Roh (09:33):
Yeah. Oh yeah, definitely. And that’s actually where we come in with our specialized services is we’ve found that, you know, more and more of the subcontractors are being obviously asked to provide this level of detail in three D models. And, you know these guys that have been out there, you know, for 30 years doing this on a daily basis they don’t really have that kind of expertise to model what they’re actually installing. So we just come in, we take over that part of the project for them and then give them shop drawings that say, this is everything that we’ve coordinated in the virtual design world, and this is what you need to install. And it should all work out and they’ve come back to us and said, you know, that process you know, it works out really well for them. Cause they’re, they’re not having to have a lot of issues where, you know, they got to work it out themselves in the field. It is already worked out, they have a level of efficiency and they’re able to install things at a quicker pace. And I think that’s what you’re seeing in the construction industry is I think buildings in general perhaps are being constructed quicker that are using these you know, kind of the latest and greatest technology for figuring all this stuff out in the BDC world.
Gareth McGlynn (10:46):
Right. Same, I totally agree. And obviously the speed and cost are the two big things. And when it comes to cost, especially the general contractor, the guys that you really collaborate with early on and maybe do a design build project with how much does it affect the cost and how much of a saving does it get the client?
Jeremy Roh (11:07):
Yeah, so, you know, I don’t know specific numbers but I I’ve heard that because of the, you know, any time you can shave off time off of a construction schedule, you’re saving money. So the, obviously the quicker you can do it, the, the you know, the less the overhead and the cost and the general conditions are going to be for a project. I worked with on a university project probably back in 2008 where we did design build and we had the contractor in at the very early age or part of the project. And we were doing kind of bid packages based off of our BIM model. We were still designing, but we were issuing a foundation package and they were building it. And then we were doing the core and shell and they were building it, you know, it was kind of like this integrated process that way.
Jeremy Roh (11:57):
And we were able to build a I was trying to think of the square footage, but like an 80,000 square foot laboratory building for Colorado state university within a year. And our design time was also within, within that construction time. So you know, that, that’s just kind of the speed where you’re not having to wait for the designer to finish, you know, work on it for a year. And then those were to the contractor and they work on it for a year. So, you know, that kind of timeline just kind of meshes together. And I think that that helps the, get the client to get their building done quicker, and then they can start operations and start making whatever money they are off of the project.
Gareth McGlynn (12:38):
Do you see it, do you see that becoming more popular Jeremy? Because I have, I’ve talked to Daryl Torres again on the podcast who’s over in Clark on the West coast and he used a similar kind of, it’s almost designed as you build or design as you go. How time consuming is it? I mean, it sounds as if you need to be really engaged on a daily basis.
Jeremy Roh (13:02):
Yeah, so, I mean, I see that mainly happiness really for like a lot of the really large scale projects that I see that happening a lot. And we’re actually involved again with those subcontractors in projects that are similar to that. But I guess what I, what I see is or how that process usually worked was on a weekly basis for us during the design phase, we were uploading models every Friday to the GCs, you know, either it was a BIM three 60 or a BIM track or whatever software platform, but every Friday we’re uploading our model on there. They’re doing their part, taking, doing takeoffs and looking at the model as well. And you know, kind of going from there on a weekly basis. So on a design side, it was a weekly thing. Once you get into construction, I mean, you could be meeting two times a week going over all those type of components. Yeah.
Gareth McGlynn (13:56):
I can imagine I’m just putting myself in the, in the estimator shoes and the general contractor every Friday, looking at the screen through, through my fingers, go on. What’s, what’s changed. What’s changed now. Where’s the estimates coming out of, but I mean, as long as there’s some sort of conceptual estimate at the very conceptual estimate at the very beginning, I wouldn’t imagine the changes too much.
Jeremy Roh (14:18):
Yeah. So normally what happens is I’m a GC. If they’re started at the very beginning they would have a, they would do like a, a estimate that would be a general maximum not to exceed price like a GMP and everything that changes plus or minus is constantly you know, as we develop the model or the design, you know, if we start to accelerate our cost, obviously they gotta, they start to tell us early on what we need to start cutting back on. And that also does save the time where at the end of the project, you’re not trying to cut out, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in something that you, you know, maybe the design creep kind of went up and above and beyond. You know, those are the kinds of things we typically saw throughout that process.
Gareth McGlynn (15:04):
Brilliant. and we, we touched on it prior to recording here, but the design and build that seems to be, you were mentioning that the risk on the general contractor shade they, they do like to get involved early on. What methodology are you seeing as the most popular for, for your firm?
Jeremy Roh (15:26):
Yeah, so you know, there have been cases where we’ve actually done design build like I’ve mentioned but more and more, we’re starting to see that the general contractors, at least in our area are kind of shying away from design build because of the liability that’s involved with that, because basically they’re taking on all the risk of the design team under their belt. And they would, you know, I think in all aspects, people want to kind of keep those liabilities kind of separate. So we are seeing a lot more of what you’ve probably heard is the IDP process or the integrated design process where GCs are coming on board from the very beginning and being part of that process. But you know, we’re, we’re, again, just working all in the, that three legged stool instead of all under their bill.
Gareth McGlynn (16:16):
Brilliant. Yeah. It wouldn’t be like the GC if we want to get involved early and not take any risks with it.
Jeremy Roh (16:23):
I mean, I don’t want him yeah.
Gareth McGlynn (16:25):
That will, that’s exactly what they can’t have. You can have your cake and eat it. But, and then give us an idea of Charlotte at the moment. I mean, I was there and I think I mentioned to you, I was there for last year for about five weeks and it was Koreans everywhere. It was, it was Berman, obviously covert we’re right in the middle of COVID. How do you see the outlook postcode?
Jeremy Roh (16:47):
Yeah. So like you mentioned, you were here about a year ago. We had probably like eight cranes, you know, just an uptown all over the place. And moving down some of the corridors, you know, that come into Charlotte, you know, they’re really starting to develop quite a bit during COVID right now. You know, there were a lot of projects that were already under construction, so those are continuing, so there’s, there’s still a lot of you know, especially multifamily just everywhere. I guess we’re getting a lot of influx of people moving to Charlotte. So there’s definitely a lot of multifamily. That’s still under construction on a daily basis road closures everywhere post COVID you know, it’s hard to tell but there’s you know, at least in our firm and what I’m hearing around town is projects are still in the design phase.
Jeremy Roh (17:37):
You know, we’re still working on projects that are slated to be constructed in their near future. Some clients have, you know, maybe slowed down a bit on their urgency of when they want the project done but we’re still working on them. So, you know, I see that there might be a little bit of a slow down, you know as we move into maybe the spring but the projects are still going to be constructed and, and who knows, you know, if you know, all goes well and everything clears up with COVID, you know, I think there’ll just be a big boom where everyone, just everything off the shelf. And
Gareth McGlynn (18:14):
To be honest with you, Jeremy, that’s what I’m fearful of. The real, the backlog will just be pushed, pushed, pushed. I mean, there’s talk of clients just kind of waiting it out to T to hopefully that the subcontractors get dropped the prices a little bit, and then there’ll be a massive explosion, but I just hope that that doesn’t happen because the lack of resources that were there pre COVID are just going to be exaggerated.
Jeremy Roh (18:37):
Oh yeah. And, and you’re, you’re seeing that with material costs, you know, here, I don’t know about the rest of the country, but here in Charlotte or lumber prices are just going up like crazy, just because of, you know, production. And also, you know, a lot of people were buying out that material. You know, at least with a lot of the multifamily that’s going around here.
Gareth McGlynn (18:56):
Yeah, that’s right. That’s what I’ve got. And give us an idea because a lot of our lessons are they’re based all over the U S but we do relocate a lot of people to the Charlotte area and the Southeast in general, give us an idea away from kind of work. What’s it like in Charlotte?
Jeremy Roh (19:13):
Yeah, I mean, just in general, like kind of
Gareth McGlynn (19:17):
Things to do live in there. Maybe bringing a young family to there because I couldn’t believe last year I lived in a place called Perth, Australia, Western Australia for two years back in 2012. And I couldn’t believe the amount of kind of 20 year olds to 40 year olds that were in the area, but I got the same feeling when I went to Charlotte. It just, it was a huge, and I think at that time, so it was a midyear last year, there was like 50 or 60 people a day moving to Charlotte. Like it was that sort of influx. What, what does it really do in Charlotte? How cool is it? I mean, I loved it personally.
Jeremy Roh (19:55):
Yeah. I mean, I think just outside of business you know, the, the city is just growing like crazy. I don’t know what the you know, where we stand in the fastest growing cities, you know, in the United States, but I know at one time we were, you know, somewhere in the top 10 but you know, with all the people that, an activity that is just, you know, here in the city the one thing that is really great is the location of Charlotte. You were literally like, you know, maybe an hour and a half to two hours from the mountains. So if you want to go up to the mountains and stay in the cabin, go whitewater rafting, or, you know, whatever hiking you know, that’s kind of a big thing going up to the mountains is like only two hours away, or you can go the other direction two and a half hours away.
Jeremy Roh (20:38):
And you’re at the beach you know, going down to Myrtle beach down in South Carolina and things like that. So, you know, that’s a, that’s a good location. And then you’ve got the big city feel you know, there there’s the whitewater center is here, you know, a lot, a lot of outdoor activity. You know, in the restaurant scene, you know, before COVID-19 was just booming, everywhere places to go at night, you know, the nightlife was great. So I mean, it’s real exciting place to be. And, and one thing I really like about it is every part of Charlotte you know, kind of like even like New York city, you know, has its own like pockets of you know, just kind of the, the vibe and the feel you know, you have Plaza Midwood, that’s real kind of trendy. And you know, a lot of the 20 year olds and 30 year olds like to go there to hang out a lot of breweries around Charlotte, you know, you just name it, there’s something to do a lot of activity,
Gareth McGlynn (21:32):
So yeah, love it. Yeah, no, I can, I can vote for all of that. I’m trying to convince my wife to move down there, but she’s she’s more of a city lady, but I’m, I’m hopeful. Yeah. Yeah. So give me an idea. No, rad, what is the plans for the next five to 10 years? Obviously post covert coming out of this, there’s going to be a construction tsunami. Do you see your guys at target in a specific sector trying to get in with w with, with certain developers? What’s the plans?
Jeremy Roh (22:02):
Yeah, so I think for us, you know, again since we started in 2015 we we’ve really been building up our portfolio of work. And at this moment, we’re trying to get to that next level where, you know, in our background, we in my background and also the owner’s background we, we have a lot of really large scale projects that we used to do. And, you know, starting out with a you know, affirm, it’s hard to get back up to that level. You know, you have to kind of work your way back up. So I think our next big thing is really, you know, w we’re in the hospitality market now, and we’re looking to get to that next level hotel, you know, where we’re doing like, you know, high rise hotels, or even, you know, mixed, used type of projects that are multistory.
Jeremy Roh (22:48):
You know, right now we’ve got a lot of four story of projects that are out there. And we’d like to get to that next level where, you know, like Matt, we’re going to the owner, he worked on that epicenter and it’s got you know, three or four floors of retail and then hotels above it. And that’s kind of the level we eventually want to get to. But you know, we’re, we’re rural focused again, still keeping in that mixed use retail hospitality. One thing that we see a lot is we help our clients with you know, the, you hear about retail and you think about malls all around the United States and, you know, people still own those malls, you know, landlords still own those projects. And you know, you hear about the retailers downsizing or moving out. So we gotta repurpose those, you know, those type of buildings.
Jeremy Roh (23:37):
So we’re real involved with coming up with other ideas of what to do in those types of spaces, how to redivide them even in shopping centers around United States, you know, how do we repurpose a lot of these buildings? And I think that’s going to come a lot with, even out of COVID-19 is now that everyone’s more comfortable working from home, you know, I’m not sure how all the office spaces that are around all these cities, you know, are we going to have to start thinking about repurposing? A lot of those types of spaces as well.
Gareth McGlynn (24:05):
Yeah, it’s good. That’s going to be, and listen to it. Probably. You’re probably right. If you come up with an innovative design or architecture firm, that, that, that, that comes up with a good idea, because, I mean, you’re talking about a lot of, a lot of city centers there. I mean, it’s not a case of one or two industries. That’s, that’s a city Sanford’s malls and an office space and apartment buildings. So it’s an exciting space. And if you can get your, your, your niche or your name and their, and, and recognize this as repurposed, and then you’ve got a, you’ve got a nice little, a nice little Rauner, I would say.
Jeremy Roh (24:38):
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Gareth McGlynn (24:41):
All right. Jeremy will listen. Thank you very much for coming on. Really appreciate it. I know our listeners will be, I’ll be delighted to hear the architecture view when it comes to the three legged still, and, and what’s happening at rod and in Charlotte. So thanks for coming on.
Jeremy Roh (24:54):
Yeah. Well, thanks for having me.
Gareth McGlynn (24:56):
Good, man. Thanks Jeremy. I appreciate it.
