Gareth McGlynn (00:00):
Roel Aguilar, welcome to the pre-construction podcast.
Roel Aguilar (00:04):
Hey Gareth. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Appreciate that.
Gareth McGlynn (00:08):
Yeah. And we really appreciate you coming on during these strange COVID times.
Roel Aguilar (00:14):
Thank you.
Gareth McGlynn (00:16):
Funny my last kind of trip before COVID, which I never knew at the time would be my last trip because I had a load of holidays and work trips planned, but it was actually in Dallas, in January, down seeing the guys in Beck Technologies. And I have to say, we were talking offline, but the people in Dallas, Texas. And I don’t know if just Dallas people tell me it’s Texas in general, but they are so nice. It’s incredible.
Roel Aguilar (00:43):
We’re a, we’re a friendly state. What can I say? You know, everybody likes to say “Hi!” And shake hands, and see, you know, face to face and meet you at the eyes. So we’re, we’re a good friendly state. Yeah.
Gareth McGlynn (00:54):
Yeah. They, they couldn’t do enough, no matter what I was doing, whether it was grabbing a beer, grabbing some food, getting on the trains or, I was actually spent most of my time on the scooters. You know, they were great craic because I didn’t know how to use them. And I was trying to figure it out and people just kept stopping and going: “Would you like some help? Let me show you how it works!”. I had great fun down there.
Roel Aguilar (01:21):
Yeah. Very helpful. It’s, it’s just a big attribute to our folks here in the great state of Texas, which, you know, if you ask me, we should be our own country, but that’s for another conversation at some other time!
Gareth McGlynn (01:35):
That’s good to know as well, because we always relocate a lot of people to Texas, and it’s good to know it’s such a great place. So just for the audience and our listeners well, give us a quick intro into how you, how you got to where you’re at today.
Roel Aguilar (01:51):
Yeah, absolutely. Graduated at a high school back in the mid nineties and went to Texas a and M university got out of there and really got into construction science program there. It’s been since I graduated, been in an industry for 22 years all in DFW. And so I initially started in operations spent off and on for four years in operations. And I say off and on, because I, I spent, you know, a little bit in operations and then I’d come into, to pre-con in my previous life with the previous company. But then after four years, it’s like, I truly gravitated towards estimating and been doing it for 18 years now. And I love it. And I’ll tell you what though. I think there was a big benefit to the operational side, just being out on the job site, getting to interact with the trade partners getting to talk to our folks and how things get put together and whatnot. That was really a great learning experience for me. So but yeah, and now here at DPR and, been with, with DPR for six years was probably the first hire for pre-construction in Dallas. I, and now we’ve got what 18 estimators in DFW. We’ve Grown a little bit over a six year timeframe,
Gareth McGlynn (03:16):
Very successfully as well. I mean, it’s hard to get 18 people in six years.
Roel Aguilar (03:21):
Absolutely. It is hard and we’ve been blessed with the work that we’ve gotten in and the people that are part of our success. So it, it really is. It’s it’s really bringing a team together is what it boils down to.
Gareth McGlynn (03:35):
Yeah. Yeah. I’m glad you mentioned the operation side as well, because it’s something I’m an advocate for. Whether it’s operations going to pre-construction, pre-construction going to operations, the guys coming out of high school, the graduates coming into the world. I still think there’s a disproportionate amount of people go into operations initially. I think that it should be split up 50/50. And then when you’re in pre-con or in operations, you then should be given the opportunity after two or three years to experience the other side. And then after three, four or five years, you really sit down with your mentor, your peers your company, and decide, right – this is where I’m going to forge forge my next 20 years.
Roel Aguilar (04:17):
Yeah. And that’s the beautiful part about DPR is we started having those conversations from year one. So we afford folks to really choose their path right, and give them a direction and how that happens. We call it a development discussion that happens every year. And you know, folks are afforded the ability to really kind of figure out what they want to do if they want to go down the pre-con route, which we’ve had a few folks from operations come into pre-con because they want to go into pre-construction and vice versa. We’ve had folks that stay in frequent, like, Hey, I think I want to go see what operations is all about. Let me, let me go try that. Like yeah, sure. Let’s make it happen. So, yeah,
Gareth McGlynn (04:57):
I love that idea as well. And I want to touch on that at the very end, because that, to me, someone like yourself, first guy on the ground to be able to build such a successful estimating team of 18 people, I want to get the, I want to get the magic sauce from that. But before we go into that, let’s, let’s kind of tap into to estimating pre-construction because this whole, this podcast really drills down on the importance of pre-construction and estimating within commercial construction. And it is, it’s becoming more and more important. The initial costs communicating with the client. Give me an idea of how you go about that with the client whether it be a conceptual estimate or running through the costs at the very beginning. Give me an idea of how you as a leader do that.
Roel Aguilar (05:45):
Yeah, sure. I think it really first off and foremost is being an advocate for our clients. So, so really for me, and for me, first and foremost, it’s, it’s truly becoming an advocate for our client is understanding what their pain is, what they’re really going after. What, what is it that they are looking for in, in what they want to build? Once you become that trusted individual for them, then, then everything else truly, you knowin, in the perfect world falls in place. Ubut it’s, it’s having that internal discussion initially understanding the expectations upfront,ureally trying to figure out what is it that they’re looking for in terms of the overall cost, right. Understanding what their budget is. That’s probably one of the first key thing. So it’s like, Hey, my, my budget is 50 million. And it’s like, well, okay. We gotta figure out a way to get to that 50 million from day one. Uand then, and then it really brings everybody a bridge, the architect, it brings the consultants and, and our team to really kind of sit down,uand, and work through that goal of trying to figure out what that cost overall cost is going to be. So that those are key, really important upfront needs.
Gareth McGlynn (07:11):
And, and the, the, the client, when you’re dealing with the client that early and getting them on their down, standing of the budget and the maybe conceptual rough estimate, does the architect get involved in, or is the architect involved prior to you coming on board? And, and when that happens, how much discussions is it even more important to, to liaise with the architect this stage? So you can get that number.
Roel Aguilar (07:34):
It is so important. And then yes, typically we’re brought in after the architect’s already on board, you know but it is so crucial to have a good understanding of the architect’s vision of what they’re thinking. That project is going to look like if in concept or even at a programmatic level, right. We start making assumptions about a building skin and we can’t go at it alone. We have to bring our architect, engineer partners into the picture and say, okay, what are you thinking? Is it brick? Is it all glass? Are you thinking a combination of metal panels? We, we can’t make that assumption early on. However on the other side of speaking out of my mouth is the reality is that sometimes we’re going to say, okay, great, that you’re thinking of glass, but this building can afford that maybe 60% glass and 35% something else.
Roel Aguilar (08:30):
Right? So those are the conversations that have to happen early upfront for them to understand, Hey, we got to live within the means that the owner’s expecting us to live with. You know, it’s gotta be clear and as transparent as possible that you can be not only with the client, but with the architect and engineer. So right now, and it’s trust really. I mean, when you think about it, it’s, it’s having them trust you and you trust them that what you’re doing is in the best interest of the project and not yours, to be honest with you.
Gareth McGlynn (09:02):
Yeah. And once you, once you get to that common goal, then it’s pretty easy communication wise. And then, and then what about technology wise? What do you use, what are you using at the moment? What are you excited about in the market?
Roel Aguilar (09:17):
Yeah, so from, from a, a building information modeling aspect assemble was our to go our, our tool that we use really to, to generate quantities and look at the model. We, we also use when the S as our estimating platform, you know, and, and we love when Nash, it’s, it’s been really a good tool for us because there’s, there’s so much you can do with it. And, and then there’s tools that we we’ve generated internally, that, that come from one S that have allowed us to do certain things. So but yeah, having, having those two things for us have been pretty crucial and critical to our success. So
Gareth McGlynn (10:02):
Are you finding the, the architects modeling off them more and more? Are they putting more information into them as the, as the, as the, the, the project kind of goes forward? And I, I, and do you find yourself going off the same model when you’re communicating with the client and the architect
Roel Aguilar (10:21):
We, we are, and I think it’s, it’s hit or miss, to be honest with you Gareth in, in some instances, it, it does work that way, where you’re seeing a lot more information. I think it’s more that way than, than the ladder. I think you’re starting to see a lot of architects really spending the time upfront to put the information into a model that’s really beneficial for the entire team. I think they’re starting to see that that’s, what’s making project successful teams successful. If they can spend a little time upfront to do all the right things that’ll make a project just kind of flow a lot better downstream. So, yeah.
Gareth McGlynn (10:58):
Yeah, absolutely. So when you, after the, th you’ve got that discussion with the architect, and you’ve got to say it as 50 minutes, you’ve got it as close to 50 million as possible, as you think with a little bit of value engineering, do you then bring it back in house and do your estimating team and then go to market and get a real tight estimate and then try and drill down a little bit more and get it as close and as watertight as possible?
Roel Aguilar (11:23):
Yeah, I think, I think at some point you got to look at what that what that means for the project, right? When, when should you go to market, can you afford to go early on? The trick is you don’t want to exercise the market exhaust your trade partners, right? You want to be fair to them and say, Hey, look, we’ve got a project coming downstream. I I’d really like to get you engaged at this phase. And when that happens, you know, let’s talk about what the expectations are and, and truly being upfront with them as possible, right? So they understand what, what your expectations are in, and what’s going to happen because at the end of the day by the letter of the law, we’re going to have to bid the project out. Right. And that’s only fair to the client, who’s expecting the best value right.
Roel Aguilar (12:09):
Overall. So but yes, we, we do engage our trade partners early. We, we try to be fair about who we go to, and really also the other expectation is, is it a good fit for a certain trade partner? You know, it’s a $10 million mechanical I’m not going to reach out to a trade partner that is not capable of doing that size of job, right. That just wouldn’t be fair to them or us or the client at the end of the day. So there’s a lot of dynamics, a lot of things that come into play when it, when it comes to that, but certainly involving your trade partners early. And, and, you know, one thing that I want to add to that too, is when you start thinking about the success of a project and developing either a design build or design assist into your project, either through your MEP partners, or let’s just say, it’s a novel glass structure, maybe going to a true engineering, the last contractor on board early, they become critical and they become part of what makes you successful as, as you start driving towards the project and, and to construction.
Roel Aguilar (13:18):
So it’s finding those true partners that can help you from a scheduling standpoint, from a budgeting standpoint from a modeling standpoint, you know, all aspects of that, and truly trying to develop a good solid team for a project. So,
Gareth McGlynn (13:35):
Yeah, and that, that, that is that as you say, that’s crucial and I’m sure with your experience having been in the DWI market for so long I’m sure that’s that no comes natural to you. You’re able to say, right, this project is better suited to maybe these two or three mechanical contractors let’s go and have a chat with them. That’s invaluable.
Roel Aguilar (13:57):
Yeah, absolutely. Those relationships are key, you know, so, so important to understand the makeup of a project and who best fits it, but it’s also important for us to be honest with us and say, Hey, look right now I can’t, I can’t get that probably because we’ve got so much work right now, and I just wouldn’t be doing any justice and that’s fair too. Right. That is an expectation as well. So yeah, go ahead.
Gareth McGlynn (14:24):
Yeah, you gotta be, you gotta be fair to everyone. That’s, that’s really the key, the communication. I’m being honest with, with everyone because like a GC back back, maybe what’s her name 10 months ago, we were, we were all pretty busy and the so-called tractors were the same. So if they couldn’t, they couldn’t, but or be competitive with a bed on a project with you, then they’re better telling you up front.
Roel Aguilar (14:47):
Yeah, absolutely. Totally agree. So let’s get back
Gareth McGlynn (14:52):
To this this magic sauce we were talking about. How in six years, do you build a team of your team, their estimators and not even how do you go about it, but what does, what do you believe is the secret to building a successful estimating team?
Roel Aguilar (15:10):
First and foremost, diversity I think bringing people from all walks of life and, you know, male, female, whatever, I think really helps help people see other perspectives, other thoughts, or their ideas and then expertise bringing the right people that make sense the right mixture of folks that have the right amount of expertise whether it’s by certain core markets or certain trade aspects, whether it’s, you know, we sell, perform. So performing contractor bringing the right person that knows how to do concrete estimates or bring in the right person that knows how to do drywall estimates and also bringing the right MVP experts into the mix. So it you’re right. It is the secret sauce. And you really got to start thinking about, you know what that looks like and, and start developing that vision early.
Roel Aguilar (16:08):
It’s like, okay, we’re, we’re seeing ourselves diving really much into healthcare. It would be advantageous for us or advanced tech, right. We do a lot of advanced tech mission critical work. It would be really advantageous for us to start thinking about bringing on key MEP experts that would help us understand, because that’s such a big, important function of either a hospital or a data center. Right. So just understanding those dynamics and, and bringing that to the table and then having others kind of see that vision as well, kind of helping them understand that, Hey, look, here’s what we’re doing as a company. Here’s what, here’s where we’re growing. Here’s the right mixture of folks. So yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely a secret sauce and it’s definitely a good mixture for sure.
Gareth McGlynn (16:56):
Good man. Yeah. You sound like you sound like a sports manager.
Gareth McGlynn (17:05):
My background sports, right. I had a, I spent about 12 or 13 years playing professional soccer and you showed exactly it’s about getting the right people in the right seats. Right. But more importantly, communicating why that person is in that seat. So if you want to have a team of five estimators and have five generalists enabled to do anything, that’s funny, as long as they know that. But if you want to have a team of five and have a civil, maybe a civil game account, MEP guy, a drywall guy, and have them understand why they’re here, why, what, why, how, when you bring it all together, it will be successful. I think that’s key. And again, it comes down to communication the same way, the communication with a client architect and GC is. Yeah. Is there anything that surprised you because again, estimating is evolving so much, especially with technology. Is there anything that you’ve, you’ve, you’ve kind of changed your idea of what, what a successful estimating team or thanks. You know, what, I would really like a really good VDC or BIM guy in there, or show me with experience with rabbit. Would that ever come into your thinking?
Roel Aguilar (18:16):
Absolutely. I think that’s so crucial now more than ever, and then going into the future, I just having those folks that have that type of level of expertise. In fact, we have several on our pre-con teams that are experts at that and, and really know how to, you know, work around assemble and know how to use the rabbit model and how to manipulate it and give, give, and provide the information that we we need on the front end. It’s so crucial to that. But yeah, I, I completely agree with that statement is having those folks, again, it goes to that level of expertise that is, is also a added outlier, right. In terms of what they can do and bring to the, bring to the table. So, and, and, you know, you gotta find out people’s valleys, you know, what, what is their value? What do they bring to the table that can help you succeed? And, and sometimes, you know people don’t see that because they’re just doing right they’re doers. And it takes folks that like myself or others that are in the team that’s to see that and help them see that and help them, direct them to where they can go. So and, and part of that communicating communication strategy you talked about earlier. Yeah.
Gareth McGlynn (19:32):
I’m finding that more and more as, as more that interview VPs and directors or estimate and managers they always say that it’s important that everybody in the team understands where their strengths. And again, it’s like a personal thing on their strengths stand where your strengths are, where your weaknesses are, exploit your strengths and work on your weaknesses. And we’re, we’re, we’re all strong and weak at certain things. There’s no, there’s no perfect estimator out there. And that, that is key. Cause funny, I was speaking with a guy recently, he runs a personality tests every year just to get an understanding of book because people change, people, get, people get really good at certain things and they need to work on other things. And I, I find that fascinating because generally in our word, you do a personality test or a disc assessments on the way in, and then that’s it. But he does them every year for his estimating team and it helps them. Yeah. I thought that was interesting.
Roel Aguilar (20:27):
Yeah. Our biggest focus is growth and development or our folks. We, we actually, I was telling you earlier, we have a career development discussion every year. But here within even our DFW and central, our focus is, is having more than that one conversation.
Gareth McGlynn (20:46):
Thanks very much for that, for that insight that that’s gonna, that’s going to be very good for audience because most of our audience and a lot of our audience is junior, maybe graduates junior estimators, project engineer’s APS. Is there any advice, especially for a guy like you who’ve been in pre-construction for 15 plus years, is there any advice that you would like to give that the young people out there, or even advice that you would like to have to give your, your 2122 year old self?
Roel Aguilar (21:15):
Yeah, absolutely. First off pre-construction is a career. Let’s just put it up there. Okay. and, and, and so I, I hear that, that some folks struggle is like, Oh, operations is where it’s at and they’re right. It is where it’s at, but it’s also at pre-construction as well. Because it is so crucial to the success of a project. It’s a solid foundation, right. That builds that project for, for anybody. And, but I, I would urge, you know, any individuals too early in the career, especially spend some time getting into pre-con at some point in, in your career, get a year, six months, 18 months, whatever you can do to really understand how it happens what it takes to generate estimates because at the end of the day, even if you go out on the, on the operations front, when it comes to change over to work or anything else like that, where you’re going to have to deal with subcontractors and understand costs and understand what they’re telling you in terms of whether the is real or not, you’re, you’re going to have to be knowledgeable at that.
Roel Aguilar (22:23):
And it’s so crucial to either do it early in your career, to understand it from a pre-construction perspective, which you’ll get, you know, if you get in a cycle of a year to 18 months, you know, you’re going to see more than one project, hopefully that you’re cycling through in some form or fashion on the pre-construction front. So get in there early, do it engage and be part of it. So it’ll help you down in your career.
Gareth McGlynn (22:48):
Yeah. Yeah. And I think people have got to get away from the general consensus of people in pre-construction are, are introverts. They’re only focused in maths, it’s crunching the numbers. There’s absolutely so much more to, to, to do with pre-construction and the skills that you need to have to be good at preconstruction are, is, are huge. There’s so much that you need to be good at.
Roel Aguilar (23:11):
Yeah. I mean the whole concept of team and bringing the right parts and pieces early enough front to develop a good solid plan for any project. It’s so crucial to understand scheduling it’s so crucial to understand logistics. It’s so crucial to understand safety and I can keep going, right. VDC modeling how a trade partner is going to look at their part of the work. All those things are so crucial that need to be understood upfront so that you can flow through that project and hopefully deliver a project within time and within the budget that you are allotted to. But yeah, I firmly believe that.
Gareth McGlynn (23:54):
Yeah, listen, we’re getting it all the time. The front end decisions and pre-construction and estimating and design really will allow us to build bigger, better, safer, and more cost-effective projects for the future. So, yeah, I agree with that. Well, listen. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it. And I did, I love the fact that your dog made an appearance that makes it unique. What was his name again? Cooper. Cooper. Love it. Yeah. Lovely dog. Yeah,
Roel Aguilar (24:27):
The coop we call them the super
Gareth McGlynn (24:30):
Well, listen, thanks very much. Enjoy, go ahead.
Roel Aguilar (24:33):
No, I was going to say thank you again for affording me the time and would love to carry the conversation in the near future about anything, any other topics you care to discuss. So
Gareth McGlynn (24:44):
That, that will definitely happen because we’re, we’re trained to change the way the pre-construction podcast works today. We’ve touched on three points and we’re trying to keep it short, sharp, and concise. And there’s definitely a time maybe in six, eight, 12 months for us to catch up again. Absolutely enjoy the holiday weekend.
Roel Aguilar (25:02):
Absolutely. Thank you so much. Same to you. We’ll talk to you soon.
