Gareth McGlynn [00:00:04] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the preconstruction podcast.
Gareth McGlynn [00:00:08] Today’s guest is Paul Hedgepath, the director of virtual design and construction with M.J. Harris out of Birmingham, Alabama. Now, this is episode seven of our Ben PDC series. So if you haven’t caught the first six, please do so. We have had some incredible guests and as always, available on HLN, Spotify or YouTube. Now back to Paul. Paul is an interesting character at a very young age. He was curious about 3D modeling. Probably mid high school, as he recalls. And he’s continued to pay in the year 3D modeling since since graduating 2005 and went straight into Holder as one of two engineers that really started up and evolved that. The vision that they have, they’re no better. But just over five years, their quick stint at J. Don. And there’s no leading the way for MJ Harris Construction Services out of Birmingham, Alabama.
Gareth McGlynn [00:01:10] As always, folks, enjoy the podcast. And please like and share with industry peers, colleagues or even your free.
Gareth McGlynn [00:01:23] Paul Hedgepath, work on to the preconstruction podcast.
Paul Hedgepath [00:01:28] Thanks for everything.
Gareth McGlynn [00:01:30] You’re welcome. It’s great having you on board.
Gareth McGlynn [00:01:32] So let’s say let’s set the scene, Paul, for all or any of the viewers or our audience that have never come across your details or I’ve never come across one of your speaking events. Give us an idea of what you’re doing right now, who you’re working with, a little bit of background on M.J. Harris and then your current role there.
Paul Hedgepath [00:01:52] Yeah, I’m currently the director of Virtual Construction Engineers. So I’ve been doing that a little over nine years and part of my role is dealing with all the ABAM and the VTC within the companies that deals of coordination and all the other things are involved with them in regards to supporting preconstruction and the field and business development and whatever else we need to do outside of that. Also dealing with destructs technology, whether it’s robotics, total stations, laser scanning or drones.
Paul Hedgepath [00:02:23] 360 photos, videos on job sites or anything in regards to technology to support our construction process. This is what I’m in charge of as well.
Gareth McGlynn [00:02:33] Very good. Very good. So how did this come about? What we’ll do is we’ll quickly jump back to Allburn University and see that you’re a proudly got the background of a few right there. Two thousand five graduated with a Bachelor of Science and Building Construction.
Gareth McGlynn [00:02:53] But what I like about your background pull is even prior to that, for four or five, maybe six years, you were heavily involved in 3D modeling. How did that come about or what made you get involved in 3D modeling then in their own the Millennium 2000?
Paul Hedgepath [00:03:11] Well, it’s a round 1996 when I was in high school, even starting in tenth level of 12th grade, I’d go to vocational school. So that was about three hours a day every day. And we started on with board drafting and CAD drafting. Then we also then we started doing modeling some CAD based modeling. Back then I was in high school and then my senior year in high school, I would go to an architecture firm after school and work there. And at that time I had and it was it was forms and some earlier 3D softwares that we used as well as I was a draftsman. How do schools and more developments and different things like that drafting. At that point and then I went on to work full time for that architecture firm for a few years and got an associates and drafting architectural drafting at the same time, and then went on into architecture school at Allburn and decided, I want to lean more towards the construction side of things and change the building science so that early exposure to drafting and architecture and modeling really got me interested in and all those types of areas of construction and design. And then once I go over into the construction field and then later graduating and going to hold their construction, have started to count them in 2005 as top as the round, the time when bellmen and the design side on the from constructions companies started getting more popular. So they will integrate that interest and knowledge into what I was already doing destruction and start that up with some other guys and Holder then onto J. Down and out and J. Harris for about nine years and using destructs technology and graphical software to marry those two things together.
Gareth McGlynn [00:04:56] Very good. Yeah, there’s no doubt about it. A bit of my agenda. The extra curricular stuff that you did at high school would have served you well, junior your degree at Auburn. Was that the case? We did. You find yourself a little bit ahead of everyone else during some of the modules?
Paul Hedgepath [00:05:11] I wouldn’t necessarily say that. I would say it sparked my interest to put me in the right direction while at Auburn were more focused on construction education. But having that hybrid allowed me to say, hey, this is something that we can that I can do or pursue once a graduated is really at the time, it really wasn’t common place and people weren’t doing it, but it made it a top of mind option to really utilize the skills later on.
Gareth McGlynn [00:05:35] Brilliant. Brilliant. And then Holder saw that you were one of the first them guys on board with those guys. What was that like, especially in those early days? Was there much Buy-In from the senior leadership to do with them and VTC?
Gareth McGlynn [00:05:49] What were the challenges of that and how much how enjoyable was that trying to bring them VTC to the forefront of such a big general contractor?
Paul Hedgepath [00:05:58] It’s good. It was good. So me and a couple other guys were able to really.
Paul Hedgepath [00:06:03] You’ll start from nothing and really establish standards in the processes, and I was able to work on a large hotel project in preconstruction and then care own over into the new Bembe department. So I was able to see it from both sides. So this was a hotel downtown Atlanta.
Paul Hedgepath [00:06:19] The Aquarium Hilton Garden in is across the street from the Georgia Aquarium. So it was it was good to see that process of the transitions from pre KONDA operations and carried on all the way through the construction. And at the time, we really didn’t have any trade partners or designers modeling that much or being able to take everything and MOLLE from scratch and coordinate it all and and really introduce a lot of the trades and the design team to what this whole damn process is now commonplace for. Everybody is pretty good. So being able to start from nothing and create your own standards and and make it a success was great for all of us.
Gareth McGlynn [00:06:56] Very nice, beautiful project to cut your teeth on, especially with some pretty of Ben. Yeah, but a big, big success for the team. It imagine.
Paul Hedgepath [00:07:05] Oh yeah. Yeah. Right.
Gareth McGlynn [00:07:07] Good. Good. And then obviously Holder then you, as you say, stayed there for a while then through J. Don MJ house. Now you’ve been there nine years. How exciting has it been building up and BDC division and how much has had has it evolved even in the last nine years since you’ve been at MJ Harris?
Paul Hedgepath [00:07:25] It’s evolved a lot. So that’s a great thing about VTC Bama and construction technology in general is you really don’t know what you’re gonna be doing two or three years from now. So 2011, when I started in J. Harris, I didn’t know that I’d be dealing with 360 photos and drones on a regular basis and all the other things outside of them that are involved in my job now.
Paul Hedgepath [00:07:46] So to do think about, you know, maybe it’s more use of augmented reality or other types of robotics or anything that could happen years from now is pretty exciting. So it’s constantly changing your constantly challenged and you’re able to really educate everybody, whether they’re preconstruction or the fielder or any any position within MJ Harris about how technology can help them. So it’s exciting to be able to do that. Anytime you’re able to step into a company, you do that.
Gareth McGlynn [00:08:14] Good, good. And as you know, this is this is the preconstruction podcast for our listeners who would be estimated, as are Junior Ben BDC guys or even people that are in high school are just about to graduate. They’re looking for a career.
Gareth McGlynn [00:08:28] And then BDC, how does that complement the estimating and preconstruction team? How important is that collaboration? And that’s that that part of a company important is that team.
Paul Hedgepath [00:08:40] I think it’s very important because you’re able to see the building in three dimensions, right?
Paul Hedgepath [00:08:45] So normally estimates are getting a set of plans and they’re either using on site or take off or some typical method or maybe they’re a little bit more advanced using tools like Revenants, symbol and other things. But anytime that you’re able to see the scope of a job that you’re quantifying and that you’re getting a pricing in from trades, the better. So you’re able to share that those three dimensional images or even the model itself with the trades that are price in the work, then they’re gonna get you a better price if they’re going to have a better understanding of the project. The G.C. themselves, if we’re bidding work or we’re trying to we’re competing for a negotiated job, we’re gonna have a better understanding of what we’re building and we’re gonna be able to explain that to the client better in regards to sequencing and how we’re gonna build it as well as pricing. As far as what my costs more to construct a certain way or for a certain type of material, there have been times where we’ll price out different value analysis or value engineering options and say, Mr. Owner, we have a brick option here or maybe a precast option, and we can model those two options and show them how what the differences will be and what the price difference will be. So that would be another value of having BDC skills within a preconstruction department.
Gareth McGlynn [00:09:57] Yeah. And again, that sort of stuff’s invaluable. I mean, to show what you can do now, as you say, it’s evolving so quickly. What. What do you think?
Gareth McGlynn [00:10:05] And just touching on this this model. Very quickly, what do you think will the future of the model be? Will it be the mom? Will model the model be at the forefront of everything that we do when it comes to construction, especially from an early stage?
Paul Hedgepath [00:10:20] I think so.
Paul Hedgepath [00:10:21] If you have a negotiated job now, you’ll see that designers over the past 10 years have really started to share models more with the GC. So we’re able to have constant feedback. So it’s not just you have a schematic design released, a Didi’s release in the city release. You’re actually getting releases from the model on a weekly basis. So we’ve done this on several projects. Even if they’re not IPD, projects will still be a seyoum at risk job, but it’ll be negotiated and we’ll get models on a weekly basis that we’re able to then click a button and see how that the scope is changing and where to manage scope creep were able to stay transparent with the owner in regards to where their project is going.
Paul Hedgepath [00:11:01] And I just see it going in that direction more and more. As the technology advances, we get more cloud uses that model and it gets faster and even more efficient. Where you have something to wear, the design team, the contractor, the owner and everyone are acting as IPD type contract. But it could be any type of delivery method for just doing this almost on a daily basis. So there’s really no surprises ever. So we always know, hey, it’s gonna be this cost. We’re able to manage this cost and manage this design. And everybody’s on the same page and even bring in the trade contractors on board even earlier, almost like a team approach type of situation. But it would just be commonplace place where the trades are working with the engineers early on during the design phase. And we’re making this a design and a constructive role model all at once, which we’ve done before. But it was kind of a one off. We’ve done it a few times where we’ve had the trades involved with the engineers early as a design and a great shot, drugs at the same time. And just like every job and be like that. Go on. So we’re really not we’re not designing it twice. You know, you don’t have your design an engineer model and you have your trade model. You have it all at once. And you’re able to also manage that cost early on because there’s no surprises later on today.
Gareth McGlynn [00:12:17] It must be it must be unbelievable for for an owner to be able to say and first for someone like yourselves and has to turn up and say, listen, this is the model. And by the way, here’s the mechanical guys, the electrical guys.
Gareth McGlynn [00:12:29] This is their model for them to be able to see everything. And I’m literally presenting a team of people. I mean, you always kind of presented razzamatazz of the team that’s gonna be on it from M.J. Harris or profiles. But how good would it be to be able to show that? But also the profiles of the mechanical electrical. It has to be the way forward to me. We always talk on this podcast about this three legged stool and the owner, the architect and then the general contractor. That collaboration and almost real time AJ construction methodology has to be has to be the way forward. I would imagine, especially with your good claims, do you almost pitch that early on or do you do. Do you advise them on the.
Paul Hedgepath [00:13:14] And in regards to have an awareness of who’s going to be on the team from year standpoint, we try to we work nationwide, so we do for our clients around the country.
Paul Hedgepath [00:13:24] So we have a we’re based in Birmingham. We have office in Tennessee, but we have three or four jobs going on right now in California. So as we go into those different markets, it’s kind of hard to maintain the same trade group all the time. So you’re dealing with new people every time. But as. In the future, I would see there being a set standard where even if it’s a new trade, they would be able to come on board early and there’d be no surprises in regards to the workflow. As owners start to adopt them more in the required and specifications, that would be something that we would be able to pitch more if we were locally in Birmingham or are actually building multiple structures in the same city than we’re able to offer that to an owner saying, hey, we’re going to use these partners that you’ve worked with before and this is going to be the process as it was before. So there’s not any surprises right here.
Gareth McGlynn [00:14:16] I can just imagine this as an owner, instead of having to wait on that dreaded e-mail of a change change order, I’ve been able to sit down and every week log on to a model and visualize.
Gareth McGlynn [00:14:27] And you know yourself, Paul. We’re all visual people. I’m I. I much prefer visuals than actual data being able to see that any change orders. It must be it’s just reassuring. And it has to set you and I mean, we’ve had this conversation on this podcast quite a lot. If you’re not involved in and then BDC or you haven’t got an internal department, then you’re way behind that April when it comes to pitch in for these projects.
Gareth McGlynn [00:14:53] And what I like as well is as I mean, speaking of Allburn, I like your your back lecturing at Allburn. Was it was that right? To say I mean, I saw a couple of things on LinkedIn. Are you back helping out those guys or are you just dipping in and out helping the next generation?
Paul Hedgepath [00:15:09] Yeah. No. Woman I will go back and will lecture on whatever expertize we have to make sure that those guys are gonna stay in up to date on what’s current. And the professors do an amazing job of educating them on the current trends and everything. And I always like to have a different perspective and know someone that’s doing it day in and day out from the industry. Come and do that. So yeah, I do that as much as I can. And it’s really you’re shaping the future there. These are the guys that are going to be the future CEOs and presidents of our companies. And the more we can educate them on technology and get them fired up about it. I think the more we’re gonna have that adoption that we’re talking about earlier where it’s more seamless and everybody is on board with everything and we eliminate a lot of the common problems that we have and destruction and design today.
Gareth McGlynn [00:15:58] Yeah, I totally agree with you. Mean having someone come out of college that you’ve technically sort of molded and and given advice on is even better to join your team and as a director have been VTC. How difficult is it building a high quality, productive team? What are the challenges and what does it take to be able to to get a good, strong, solid team together, to be able to move forward?
Paul Hedgepath [00:16:22] You have to bond Simbi with passion that’s interested in doing their job, but also thinking outside the box and someone that’s saying, hey, maybe there’s ways we can improve in this area or this area, someone that has good social skills, because I will really say eighty nine percent of EDC is gonna be social is gonna be interacting with people. Yeah, you got to have the computer skills and Revit now works and all those different types of things. But you’re gonna be talking to people all day long, whether it be a trade contractor or the superintendent in the field or or maybe I estimate or or anybody. And it’s your job as a BDC professionals to support everyone else in the company in all different areas. And there’s few jobs in a construction company that are are like that. Most people are kind of in their silo. Of course, they work and work with other people and they try to break down the silos themselves. But by definition of BDC professional doesn’t have a silo because they’re with everybody. Yeah. And I can thereby job that.
Gareth McGlynn [00:17:20] Yeah, I love it. I listen, I get it all the time. We specialize in recruiting estimates and preconstruction professionals.
Gareth McGlynn [00:17:27] And right at the beginning we started at four or five years ago and the company at the beginning, it was all about the technical ability, it was all about their ability to do their job. They used to maybe sit in a corner and just just grain died. Hard beds? No. In the last year, 16 months, that ability to collaborate and be client focused is just creep the top every ever. So often the evolution of an estimate or a preconstruction person. I’ve seen them person. It’s a about getting the best out of a team and valuably almost being able to sell your vision or your part within it within a project. And if we get kind of push on though and look at tech stocks, what excites you right there? Right now, you buy them and BDC is there any particular technology or product that you think you know what this is? I didn’t see this coming. This is a game changer.
Paul Hedgepath [00:18:19] I would say augmented reality and the Trimble X are 10 that uses the whole lens to that’s been out for a few months now and it’s it’s been a great change. So we’ve seen the whole lens for several years. You knew your pricing at at trade shows and things on the floor and you’ll be able to put it on. You can see model over there and you’ll go, oh, that’s cool. But when you actually use the Hollands to with the greater field of view and use it on one of your jobs and actually see the pipe out there and where it’s supposed to be and where maybe isn’t, that’s a huge, huge benefit. Not before we actually use it. MJ Harris on a job. I really didn’t see the benefit like I do now. You see it kind of as a novelty or something that’ll be a nice to have. But when we’re able to put it on a superintendent and put it on a piping format and instantly see an issue and be able to relocate some pipe because of that, and that’s a game changer. So I see things like augmented reality and being able to make that even smaller and cheaper and maybe something to wear. Pipefitters and other people could wear it because they will want to wear it in the field when we use it out there that, hey, I can actually lay on my pipe with this thing. So when you have people that don’t use technology on a regular basis, wanting to use technology and instantly seeing value, that gets me excited.
Paul Hedgepath [00:19:33] So this is one of the things recently that I’ve noticed I think is going to continue to improve.
Gareth McGlynn [00:19:38] Brilliant. Yeah. And as you say there, there’s a lot of shiny things out there that are coming out, but read stuff that you literally can test on on a site. And as you say, give me a forum on superintendents, superintendent with 25, 30 years experience. It wouldn’t be as technologically savvy as someone like you. But to be able to put on them and say, well, this is a game changer. And then Sam, right away, that’s that’s a hell of a benefit for you. Good. And then give us an idea of of what’s what’s what’s the future? I mean. That’s right. Know what’s maybe three or four years down the line. Is there anything specifically? You know, we talk about data quite a lot. And the model within preconstruction and estimating, is there any kind of is there anything that’s going to change that particular area of of construction that you see coming down the line?
Paul Hedgepath [00:20:30] Well, you have a software is out there like a symbol, and even some s main teams are using Revit to do all their quantification. And I’ve been using On-street take off for other things. So I think that’s going to continue to evolve where people on the estimating side are utilizing the model more and even getting more constant feedback from the design team. So whereas where we may have design iterations where, like I mentioned earlier, where we’re designing based off document releases, if they’re able to streamline that, I guess I would say design, but estimating they will streamline that estimate where you get the feedback even quicker, more able to notify the owner when scope creep might be happening, but it might be getting a little bit out of budget.
Paul Hedgepath [00:21:11] So with the use of tools like assemble and other things to analyze the model and then the more adoption of analytics, our B-R or any other types of internal analytics company might have, getting the owner information quicker is going to continue to increase by using them BDC Analytics and really just understanding how to use all those tools together to get that information over to him.
Gareth McGlynn [00:21:36] Brilliant. Yeah, yeah. I couldn’t agree more. And then is there any. Again, when 2005. When you were in university, did did you. Did you have a clear path to then BDC was going to be your career? I’m just kind of thinking back to our autist audience. Who graduates are already junior people with them then then BDC. Is there any advice that you would give them that that might help them in their career that time?
Paul Hedgepath [00:22:02] No, because it really didn’t exist in the construction industry. It wasn’t commonplace. You may have seen a few Jeezy’s doing it, but it really wasn’t something that was talked about or was even a career option. But getting out there and thinking outside the box and having like minded people around you, it became an opportunity.
Paul Hedgepath [00:22:21] So now that is an opportunity. I know at our university they do integrate BDC and Bam into all their classes as well as they have theses options and other things. So it is a big part of Auburn University now and do get to very well. So if it’s something you’re interested in, definitely seek it out. And a construction education program and. Pay extra mind those types of classes, as well as a get educate yourself in the software. There’s plenty of resources for where you can become good at software before you graduate.
Paul Hedgepath [00:22:53] Not only that, I’m just thinking outside the box because maybe there is going to be something else besides being a BDC, just as it was for me. That’s emerging. That’s coming up. Maybe it’ll be robotics one day or something else where there’s professionals doing that. We’ve seen lamers emerge a lot. We have a lot of lean professionals like construction professionals and companies now. So that would be a good example of one that emerged after Bam! So there’s all types of things. And then even if you want to do the standard estimating and project management or field grow, being good at the BDC element of it as well is going to enhance your own job and make your job easier.
Gareth McGlynn [00:23:29] Absolutely. And as you say, it’s all about standing out. I mean, Jerkovic, junior downtime, young professionals, male, female, always reaching out to me saying, listen, guys, I’ve got some downtime. No, I may have been furloughed. What should I do? I’m constantly saying you’ve got to upscale yourself, get certification, whether it be the Autodesk University.
Gareth McGlynn [00:23:48] Go on to YouTube. There’s loads of Langton learning out there to be able to upscale yourself to a degree. And it’s all about adding value. And as you say, no matter what part of construction you’re in, you’re going to need them BDC or you’re going to need an understanding of how it works.
Gareth McGlynn [00:24:04] So you’re in Birmingham at the moment. Paul, what? What do you do on the downtime when you’re not playing with your ex or tan and and your robotics?
Paul Hedgepath [00:24:15] I’ve got two kids. I’ve got a five year old girl and a one year old boy. So that keeps you pretty busy. That’s probably the favorite thing to do, is spend time with the family. Other things as well. Competitive cheer and other types of things that golf and all that other stuff. So I do have time. I’ll do some of that stuff, but mainly just with the family.
Gareth McGlynn [00:24:36] Good man. Good man. No, that’s not it. And listen, thank you very much as well for giving us some time to come and speak to the preconstruction podcast. I really do appreciate it.
Paul Hedgepath [00:24:45] Yeah. Appreciate it. Any time.
Gareth McGlynn [00:24:52] A huge thank you to Paul. Really good insight into Ben VTC and the challenges we’re going to have and also what we can see in the future.
Gareth McGlynn [00:25:00] If you are interested in hearing more from Paul. I believe he is speaking at the advancing preconstruction conference, which, of course, like all conferences at is, has gone virtual Switzerland on November 3rd. We need SSP and the preconstruction podcast will also be making an appearance. We are set for Friday morning, set to November 6th.
Gareth McGlynn [00:25:23] So looking forward to that. As always, folks, please share.
Gareth McGlynn [00:25:27] Unlike the podcast and the episodes that you’re listening to, we have a few more really good guests coming up over the next two weeks. Stay tuned and be.
